How Shopify builds a high-intensity culture | Farhan Thawar (VP and Head of Eng)

Listen to this episode from Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career on Spotify. Farhan Thawar is the head of engineering at Shopify, where he oversees more than 1,000 engineers and a platform that powers over 10% of all U.S. e-commerce. Before Shopify, he was VP of engineering at Pivotal Labs and Xtreme Labs, and co-founder of Helpful.com. In our conversation, Farhan shares: • Why choosing the harder path leads to better outcomes • How to create intensity within your org (without burnout) • Why every company should be embracing pair programming • How he hires without interviewing • How he built the world’s largest internship program • His mission to create a “crafter’s paradise” for engineers • Much more — Brought to you by: • ⁠DX⁠—A platform for measuring and improving developer productivity • ⁠Persona⁠—A global leader in digital identity verification • ⁠Vanta⁠—Automate compliance. Simplify security — Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-shopify-builds-a-high-intensity-culture-farhan-thawar — Where to find Farhan Thawar: • X: https://x.com/fnthawar • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fnthawar — Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ — In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Farhan’s background (05:38) Choosing the hard path (09:37) Getting comfortable with looking dumb (13:20) Lessons from working with visionaries (19:19) Creating intensity in organizations (22:06) The power of pair programming (29:18) Shopify’s culture of intensity (37:18) Meeting Armageddon: revolutionizing company meetings (39:46) Reducing distractions (41:10) Deleting 1M+ lines of code (49:05) Three buckets of building (57:45) Remote work and trust battery (01:00:29) Finding stability in uncomfortable times (01:03:14) Hiring philosophy (01:11:41) Internship programs and co-op systems (01:15:32) Lessons from managing 120 direct reports (01:20:40) Failure corner (01:27:46) Lightning round and closing thoughts — Referenced: • The Steve Jobs quote about connecting dots: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/463176-you-can-t-connect-the-dots-looking-forward-you-can-only • Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/ • GitHub: https://github.com/ • Farhan’s “questions to ask” framework: https://x.com/fnthawar/status/1514193402828574721 • Palantir: https://www.palantir.com/ • Joe Liemandt: https://www.linkedin.com/in/liemandt • Chamath Palihapitya: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamath_Palihapitiya • Xtreme Labs: https://www.xtremelabs.io • Parkinson’s law: https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-parkinsons-law-6674423 • Pair programming: https://dev.to/documatic/pair-programming-best-practices-and-tools-154j • Cody Fauser on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/codyfauser • How Shopify builds product: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-shopify-builds-product • Chaos Monkey: We look at Shopify’s new ‘culture of focus’: https://www.siliconrepublic.com/careers/shopify-chaos-monkey-meetings-culture-deann-evans • Empowering devs with AI: How Shopify made GitHub Copilot core to its culture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVKBwcm5dbw&t=2318s • Tobi Lütke of Shopify: Powering a Team with a ‘Trust Battery’: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/24/business/tobi-lutke-of-shopify-powering-a-team-with-a-trust-battery.html • Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach • Stop Being Deceived by Interviews When You’re Hiring: https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesleadershipforum/2012/02/07/stop-being-deceived-by-interviews-when-youre-hiring/ • Shopify’s made the Life Story a major part of their interview: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39294140 ...References continued at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-shopify-builds-a-high-intensity-culture-farhan-thawar — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected]. — Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.