Creator of Spring: No desire to write Java at All

Listen to this episode from Talking Kotlin on Spotify. Sebastian and Márton chat with Rod Johnson, the creator of the Spring Framework. Rod tells the story of how Spring was born more than two decades ago, and shares his recent journey of coming back to the JVM and discovering all the fun of being a newcomer to Kotlin.Resources: Expert One-on-One J2EE Design and Development: Rod Johnson Oh the Places You'll Go! Shoulders of Giants: Languages Kotlin Learned From | Andrey Breslav Revamping and Extending Kotlin's Type System | Ross Tate Scala in 2018 Keynote | Rod Johnson But Java has pattern matching! | Alejandro Serrano MenaHosts: Sebastian Aigner – Website | Bluesky Márton Braun – Website | Bluesky Guest: Rod Johnson – Twitter | LinkedIn Timeline:(0:00) Intro(0:52) The origins of Spring(6:40) You need a business model(8:21) Consistency is key(9:39) Sustainable open source(14:22) Parallels with JetBrains and Kotlin(15:29) Rod’s journey around the JVM(20:48) Shoulders of giants(22:34) The newcomer experience(24:40) LLMs write great Kotlin(30:34) “You can start without great pain”(33:32) Extension functions(36:15) Too much magic?(37:56) Rod’s feature wishlist(39:37) Versioning and compatibility(41:19) Ecosystems and interop(43:34) Kotlin type system evolution(46:27) Kotlin with Spring(52:24) Learning Spring with Kotlin(54:46) Kotlin in 5 years?(1:00:39) Rod’s current work(1:03:58) Wrap-up